Print Story OH MY GOD. SOCIALISM!!!
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By R343L (Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 12:02:57 AM EST) (all tags)
Cue scary music.

Anyway, I saw Sicko today on this fine (hot) Independence Day since I had nothing better to do. Now, I am drinking beer (will be quite drunk I imagine by bed time).

Other items inside: cycling tips, Paprika.



Sicko

So, yeah, oh my god socialists. That was pretty much the thrust of Moore's new movie. But in a tongue-in-cheek tone of "wait, THIS is what you guys mean by socialism?" Ostensibly (by the previews), it was about the craziness (and frankly, immorality) of the United States private health insurance / HMO system. In reality, it was more "if this is socialism, count me in" with health care as its focus.

The movie started out with the cute quote from Bush about OB-GYNs practicing their love, etc. Cue title. Then, he tells some stories about people without insurance, but says this movie is not about them. This was a good tactic since it increases the sense of solidarity (see below section on democracy). He then tells a few stories about people with health insurance. They are pretty well-known stories (in the sense that many people have had these things happen to them, not that I recognized any particular family):

  • Denied a cancer treatment because it is deemed "experimental".
  • Retired couple forced to sell the family home and move in with a daughter to pay medical bills.
  • Pretty heart-wrenching: a child denied a right-ear cochlear implant (she only gets one) because cochlear implants are "experimental".
  • Woman getting stuck with ambulance bill because she, unconscious after a car wreck, neglected to direct emergency personnel to get pre-approval from her insurance company.
  • Retroactive denial of coverage (and payment for services) because of neglecting to mention incredibly routine health treatments (in this case a yeast infection).
Moore then spends a little time on these people and also various people who work (or did) in the HMO and medical insurance companies. But then Moore moves into what is really the point of this movie: showing us what other nations' systems are like and lots of incredulous conversations.

Moore of course does this all in a folksy, ignorant American just showing up manner. When he is in Canada, he talks with his own relatives (who won't travel to the US to visit him without getting emergency travel insurance), random people in various medical facilities, some nice old golfer who had an injury on vacation in Florida one year, etc. In every case, the Canadians are just incredulous when Moore asks questions like "well, how much is this?". One lady does admit that people complain about it, but that no one would really want anything other than universal coverage. The nice old man golfer has the most philosophical bent (i.e. he seems to understand the moral justification for a socialized health system). When challenged by Moore about whether he could have just paid for his injury and not pay (thru taxes) for everyone else, the man immediately looked almost hurt, only to reply that, no, those who have a lot take care of those who don't. People should take care of each other, etc.

The UKian section was similar, but somewhat amusing because they did all these semi-triumphant scenes of Moore walking thru various streets. The best part of the UK sections were:

  • An interview with a doctor in a general practice (NHS employee) from whom Moore wants to find out if doctors have it "bad" under socialized medicine. Now, this doctor is pretty well-off (million dollar house in Greenwich, Audi, family, etc.) and I imagine most doctors even in (cue scary music) Socialist Britain do all right, but I'm sure Moore has gotten challenged on this bit.
  • Tony Benn had extended interview segments with him going off on the reasons behind the UK getting the NHS and the power of democracy. Very inspiring, see later section. :)
The France segment was, of course, quite similar. The best part, though, were all the American expats on the French system raving about the quality of life in general: health care, vacation time, maternity leave, etc. Basically Moore sat down with 10+ expats over dinner (with the camera of course). Most amusing and everyone at the table came off as very genuine (which I suppose is important for a propaganda-documentary as this kind of thing is).

Anyway, back to Tony Benn (whom I didn't know the name of and had to lookup online) was an MP and held various positions in various governments. His role in the film was to explain socialism .. and that in many ways it is just an outpouring of a functioning democracy with a healthy, informed, challenging populace. Quite a bit about power moving from money to ballots and how this causes a re-thinking of everyone's position. The "we're all in this together" kind of attitude. Of course, he put it much better. I'm going to have to go read some Tony Benn.

And now the part you've all been waiting for: the random bullet list once I've lost all coherent organization!

  • Jaw-dropping bit of 1996 testimony by an MD who worked as a medical claims reviewer (i.e. the doctor whose signature goes on the letter that denies someone coverage) saying her signature caused a man's death and for this she was rewarded with a fat salary and advancement. Yes, I knew this happened, but someone actually said it openly and I didn't hear about it? Guess I didn't really care about this stuff in high school.
  • He played some scary recordings of Nixon being advised on the HMO Act. Nixon being all cool that Kaisar's HMO plan was predicated on the notion that if the company gives less care, they make a profit. Yay capitalism!
  • Amusingly enough, a lot of the Canadians, Brits or French Moore talked with felt the need to preface their non-criticisms of the US system with comments like "I like America" or "I'm not criticizing America". Ha!
  • One major part dealt with some 9/11 rescue workers (mostly EMTs / firemen) who have health problems due to working at the wreckage. First it was just about how they can't get decent help with their ailments. Then, Moore charters some boats to Cuba to get them treated at the hospital in the detainee facility (read: interment camp) at Guantanamo Bay. This of course fails, so they go into Havana and get treated by Cuban doctors (great stunt -- both for Cuba and Moore). The one lady is brought to tears when she finds out that the inhaler she was prescribed costs literally pennies in Cuba and she has been paying $120 per inhaler (while living off of limited Social Security disability payments).
Overall it was a very engrossing film. Moore was smarmy, but not too much. I'm sure he took some leeway here and there, but it's not like opponents of universal healthcare don't ("oh my god! people wait nine months for bypass surgery in Canada!!"). And I was continually amused by the incredulous attitude Moore maintained every time he asked someone (not in the US) if they had to worry about big hospital bills (or little ones, etc.)

This is all pretty rough, but I thought I'd set myself a somewhat useful task for this evening (other than drinking).


Cycling

Been biking everyday (everyday to-and-from work even, which is generally 16 miles or more depending on errands). It seems that when I am biking everything falls away and it is just me. There is also a great deal of physical pleasure in moving myself around. I moved myself from point A to point B. Or even just in a single moment when I'm tired and feel a little discomfort and realize it is part of me and it still feels good.

Anyway, today I took a break and only used it to get around town (to the grocery store, to the movie theater, etc). Some tips:

  • Life is too short to never feel the wind in your hair. So, I'm not going to continue with my helmet wearing all the time. I will still wear it for commute and any long trips (especially lots of roads) and still probably most of the time. But today was just too dang hot to not have wind evaporating the sweat.
  • It turns out that putting one end of the "U" on the U-lock through your pedal's platform (as well as around the frame and the rack) is not a good way to lock your bike and will result in frustrations detaching the U-lock for proper operation of your transportation device. And no, I have no idea how I managed to do that with out noticing until I returned to leave.

Paprika

I also saw Paprika a few days ago. See a recent diary from ana for a comment. Worth seeing if you like anime.

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OH MY GOD. SOCIALISM!!! | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Excellent summary/review by LoppEar (2.00 / 0) #1 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 01:10:32 AM EST
Good recall.




not much of a review by R343L (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 01:25:37 AM EST
More of a junior high book report. Ah well.

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't say that. by Mole (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 10:16:54 AM EST
Good summary saves me from watching it since that's basically what I figured it'd be about without knowing specific events.

There are a lot of problems with the Canadian health care. One from knowing doctors and other staff. Big problems exist including outdated equipment, too few of them, salary caps for doctors, too few nurses/docs, waiting periods services and so on.  Forgot you get charged for ambulances now too 80 bucks last time one was needed (could be just some places).

If I had the money I'd go to the US for treatment but since I don't I'm happy with the Canadian system. It's far from perfect like Moore makes it seem but it's better than going bankrupt or having no treatment.

[ Parent ]

that is indeed the biggest flaw in the movie by R343L (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 10:48:46 AM EST
It does gloss over problems. But from what I've read the problems with the CA/UK/etc systems pale in comparison to the issue of just being denied treatment at all because you can't pay. Or just never getting any care at all.

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

Rather like the quote on by Phage (2.00 / 0) #14 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 11:13:38 AM EST
The democratic system itself. It's the worst popssible system. Apart from the alternatives.

Founder member Golgafrinchan 'B' Ark
[ Parent ]

Tony Benn by Herring (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 05:15:01 AM EST
(aka Wedgie) I have seen him live and he's quite an engaging speaker. Very Old School Socialism compared with the government we have now though. It's hard to argue with the notion that power should come from votes, not money.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey


didn't really put it in by R343L (2.00 / 0) #10 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 10:50:21 AM EST
But his enthusiasm for the Power of the People made me want to go out and organize something. Also, one of the French interviewees went off on protests (and Moore showed a bunch of protests). The point was that in France, the government fears the people, while in the US, people keep their heads down because they fear the government and their corporate overlords (no they didn't quite put it in those words).


"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

I've often wondered by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #16 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 12:02:10 PM EST
do people in the US actually fear the government, or do we just think we're absolutely powerless to change things?

[ Parent ]

But that's why you've all those guns, right? by jump the ladder (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 12:22:47 PM EST
So the government can't oppress you?

Still we in the UK take up the arse from the govt also unlike the French...

[ Parent ]

no by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #18 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 12:46:15 PM EST
the guns are for dealing with bad traffic at rush-hour.

[ Parent ]

actually he went into both by R343L (2.00 / 0) #21 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 02:06:12 PM EST
Keep the population in fear, demoralized, uneducated and unhealthy and they won't make trouble. And I at least believe that large numbers of Americans do fear the government.

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

So basically the US Health System is so fucked by jump the ladder (2.00 / 0) #4 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 05:31:48 AM EST
It makes the UK's half-arsed, bureaucratic and underfunded NHS look good which is some acheivement.

Actually it would be good having socialised medicine in the states, imagine Bush selling Iraq to US people a few years ago if he had shut down loads of state owned hospitals to pay for it.



The NHS isn't underfunded by hulver (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 09:08:38 AM EST
It spends an awful lot of money on the wrong things.

Most of those things are driven by government.
--
smart, pretty, sane. pick two - georgeha
[ Parent ]

Underfunded - moot point by Herring (2.00 / 0) #7 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 09:22:43 AM EST
Compared with other developed countries, the UK does spend a pretty low proportion of GDP on healthcare. France (insurance based system) for instance pays a lot more. Seeing as a centralised command and control system is more effecient, there's an argument that you don't need to spend as much.

If we spent what the US spends (per-capita about twice what we do now) and got rid of the fucking around with internal markets, PFI, ITCs etc. then it would be sodding brilliant. We might even have NHS dentists.

Actually, why is it that if anything goes wrong with any part of you except eyes and teeth it's free?

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

I thought dental and eye care were part of NHS? by R343L (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 10:51:26 AM EST
Strange oversight.

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

Does it look like our dentists are free? by Herring (2.00 / 0) #15 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 11:28:16 AM EST
Certain categories of people (unemployed, pensioners, pregnant women) do get completely free dental treatment (if they can find a dentist who will take on NHS patients). Everyone else pays part (most) of the cost.

Eye tests cost - although if you work with computers your employer is obliged to pay (note to self: get eye test). I am not sure if such a thing as NHS glasses (see Morrissey) exist any more. Peversely, people with only one eye (like my mum) have to pay full price for an eye test.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

I just didn't know by R343L (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 02:08:26 PM EST
And never bought into that "british teeth are bad" stereotype. :)

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

on the bright side by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 01:50:58 PM EST
if you're not spending all your money on trying not to die, you may have a little extra for teeth and eyes. not saying you will, just that you may.
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if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake
[ Parent ]

Dentistry by TurboThy (2.00 / 0) #27 Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 05:38:41 PM EST
In Denmark we also have to pay for the dental work ourselves. I've heard this is because it was traditionally done by blacksmiths in villages or at fairs, so that particular branch of medicine was for long regarded as second-rate to the "real" doctors. As a consequence, dental work was excluded when introducing welfare in the 50'es, but whether through lobbyism by doctors, ingrained stereotypes or whatever, I don't know.
__
You can't fix anything, you can't change anything, so just tell them that everything is A. The Fuck OK. —Rogerborg
[ Parent ]

well yeah by R343L (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 10:55:30 AM EST
But I went in knowing that. The neat part of watching a Michael Moore film when I'm pretty sure I'll agree with his main point is looking at how he attempts to make that point palatable to the average american. Hence the "OH MY GOD SOCIALISM". I think he did a good job of making "socialized medicine" not seem that bad. One amusing bit was him doing a "hmm, firemen, and police, and libraries are free and shared by everyone, why is health care different?" Only of course it showed him visiting a firehouse, etc. Good propaganda. :)

Curious about UK system: I wonder, did Thatcher and/or the fake Labourites of the 90s fuck with the NHS, or did it start messing up on its own? Or was it always not-that-great and just no one cared because alternatives were worse?

In any case, remember the Canadian lady who said that sure people complain, but no one would want the alternative (implied to be the crazy USian system).

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

Tony Benn by DullTrev (2.00 / 0) #5 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 07:08:05 AM EST

Is A God.

He's a bit of a hero of mine... Read about his work to get peerage reform - there is a man who believes in democracy, fighting to be able to renounce his place in the House of Lords so he can be elected to the House of Commons instead.

He also really likes new technologies - he was involved in the Concorde project, for example. He also tried to produce stamps without the Queen's head on them when he was Postmaster General, but ultimately got knocked back.

He is a compulsive diarist, and they give an incredible insight into the politics of the era, but also into him. Try The Benn Diaries - abridged, thankfully, as it covers 50 years...

And, of course, his wife was an American, so maybe there is hope for you lot after all.


--
DFJ?


indeed by R343L (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 10:56:55 AM EST
Just listening to him was a breath of political fresh air -- articulate, but very straight-speaking; passionate, but still reasoned. Can't we have politicians here? Obama doesn't count because he has so-so policies dressed up to sound nice.

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

helmets by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #20 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 01:52:11 PM EST
like i said before, if i'm on the road i'm helmeted. on the trail i'm not as worried. i trust myself, i dont trust people in cars.
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if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake


strangely, the statistics don't bear that out by R343L (2.00 / 0) #23 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 02:37:27 PM EST
Not that I suggest you don't wear a helmet, but more bicycle accidents occur (in CA at least it's 4:1) with no car involved. There are even some studies to suggest that car-bicycle accidents don't have significantly greater rates of head injury, which is somewhat surprising. My quick glance at CA statistics doesn't make that clear if it's true and I can't find the articles I had read it in (as you can imagine I have been  googling a lot on bicycles lately). Also granted I'm not controlling for how many miles are on road vs off, etc. Which is why they do studies.

I still though will continue to use a helmet most of the time in traffic. :)

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

that may be by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #24 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 04:31:30 PM EST
cali is more densely populated than out here, and to me would probably have a larger number of bikes out. for instance, while i never biked in madison, i paid attention to bike-car interaction. cars actually treated bikes as members of traffic, and i think that makes a big difference in accident rates. out here almost every time i bike on the road i have cars doing things like going around me to turn right in front of me (causing me to nearly hit their passenger side) or not seeming to see me at all. drivers dont seem to know how to act here, whereas they might in cali.

i might just be pulling this out of my ass, too, but that's what i've observed.
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if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake
[ Parent ]

probably some truth to it by R343L (2.00 / 0) #25 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 05:27:08 PM EST
but it's really hard to study the effects on accident rates of driver and bicyclist attitudes. But yeah, CA does have a lot more cyclists and 99% of the time they act pretty reasonable.

"Like oceans of regret / All these questions rise / Will they drown with our mistakes / Or will they learn to fly?" -- Blackfire
[ Parent ]

perhaps not attitude by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #26 Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 05:47:53 PM EST
but density. compare car:bike ratios of various places with their rate of car vs bike accidents. not that i'm suggesting you do this, it just might be a way to study it.
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if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake
[ Parent ]

OH MY GOD. SOCIALISM!!! | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback